Interesting video.  I wonder if it will pan out.  Remember all the hype about hydrogen cars?

I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles in any of our lifetimes. Even if the tech problems were solved, which they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into driver education and enforcement would yield better returns. About the only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

Why not rent when you need the vehicle as in your expample, not your personal life.

To me the vehicle is freedom. I don't like the cruise experience because I have to give up all freedom of coming and going when I want to. Having an app on my phone is just intrusive to my life. I need to get to the store because I need two ingredients from the international food store for some chili for this weekend. I don't want to get a ride there and have to wait for a second ride back. My time is too valuable waiting for a cab by any other name.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 4:18 AM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:

On Nov 10, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Alan Bourke alanpbourke@fastmail.fm wrote:

...

I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles in any of our lifetimes. Even if the tech problems were solved, which they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into driver education and enforcement would yield better returns. About the only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

Think of it as mass transit that is tailored to each person’s needs. Buses and trains are OK, but they only go to certain places at certain times. What if I have an opportunity to work somewhere, but it is a bit far away and I don’t have enough money to own a car. A system of state-owned autonomous cars would mean that I could get a ride to and from work when I need to go, and only pay for that, instead of having to buy an entire car for myself. Or perhaps I’m old and the only market I can walk to is expensive and has a terrible selection. With autonomous cars, I could be driven to a much better market without having to pay for exorbitant taxi fees.

Those are just examples I made up just now. Personally, I own a car, but since I work from my home, I rarely need it. Most of the time it sits in the driveway, and is only used when I have to go somewhere. I would much prefer to pull up an app on my phone, get picked up and taken to my destination, and would gladly pay what that would cost. It would be much, much cheaper than having to shell out the huge down payment and significant monthly payments on my car, as well as the several thousand dollars of insurance I pay each year just to have that car available when I need it. Fortunately for me I earn enough to afford such luxury, but not everyone is as fortunate as I am.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

I like the idea of what you suggest Ed, but the reality will not be good. Most people are slobs. Don't believe me? Look in the windows of cars in parking lots anywhere in the Country and you'll see what I mean. And I'm just as guilty as the next person, so I'm not calling anyone out here without calling out myself too.

I can just imagine how some of these "shared" ride cars would be like on the inside after a few hundred trips even if the authority running the program cleaned the cars on a regular basis.

Paraphrasing George Carlin, "my mess is stuff and your mess is gross". :)

Paul H. Tarver

-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ed Leafe Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:08 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

On Nov 11, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Stephen Russell srussell705@gmail.com wrote:

Why not rent when you need the vehicle as in your expample, not your personal life.

Sure, if the vehicle would come to my house when I need it, and when I return home, it drives itself away. Or if I want to travel somewhere for the day, I would want to rent it to get there, and then again to return home, but not for the hours/days that I am there. A fleet of state-owned autonomous cars would give me that freedom: pay for what you need, and not for idle time.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

Actually, I wasn't endorsing the idea of the "state-owned vehicles" which was part of Ed's comment. But I used the word "authority" because I'm assuming even if it was a privately outsourced service, it would be heavily regulated.

My point was more about the fact that I can just see someone eating in the cars, leaving either their valuables or their trash in the cars, doing drugs or drinking in the cars and all sorts of fun and wonderful stuff that we can't even or won't imagine. Do you want a car show up at your house to take you and the family to a movie and find inappropriate stuff in the car? Because you know it will happen. :)

The real challenge a privately held corporation will have in providing this kind of service is one of liability. Just take a look at late night tv and you can see how much litigation is generated by the drug industry. I'm guessing that "Big Car Sharing" businesses would be just as much of a target as "Big Pharma", "Big Food", etc. All it will take is one accident and the attorneys will be lined up with class-action lawsuits ready to go.

However, I do see programming opportunities here:

1) Ride Order Processing and Customer Management Systems 2) Cleaning Schedule Management Systems 3) Maintenance Scheduling Systems 4) Compliance Management Systems 5) Web-Based & Mobile Based Ordering Systems 6) Customer History Tracking Systems (Where they been, where they are going, who they spoke with, etc) 7) Audio Analysis of captured conversations while in transit (NSA & Homeland notified only when necessary) 8) In Car Camera monitoring systems (legal purposes only such as in defense of accidents, of course!)

Paul H. Tarver

-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Russell Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 8:54 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

State owned vehicles?

That one crossed the line. Big Brother is more present today that ever.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:

I like the idea of what you suggest Ed, but the reality will not be good. Most people are slobs. Don't believe me? Look in the windows of cars in parking lots anywhere in the Country and you'll see what I mean. And I'm just as guilty as the next person, so I'm not calling anyone out here without calling out myself too.

I can just imagine how some of these "shared" ride cars would be like on the inside after a few hundred trips even if the authority running the program cleaned the cars on a regular basis.

Paraphrasing George Carlin, "my mess is stuff and your mess is gross". :)

Paul H. Tarver

-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ed Leafe Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:08 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

On Nov 11, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Stephen Russell srussell705@gmail.com wrote:

...

Why not rent when you need the vehicle as in your expample, not your personal life.

Sure, if the vehicle would come to my house when I need it, and when I return home, it drives itself away. Or if I want to travel somewhere for the day, I would want to rent it to get there, and then again to return home, but not for the hours/days that I am there. A fleet of state-owned autonomous cars would give me that freedom: pay for what you need, and not for idle time.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

On Nov 13, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Stephen Russell srussell705@gmail.com wrote:

State owned vehicles?

That one crossed the line. Big Brother is more present today that ever.

Simply for the standardization. Imagine several different entities coming up with their own communication system for self-driving - that would be a nightmare.

Besides, if you carry a cell phone or use a credit card, big brother can already track you.

-- Ed Leafe

On 2017-11-12 01:07, Ed Leafe wrote:

A fleet of state-owned autonomous cars would give me that freedom: pay for what you need, and not for idle time.

So tax dollars are paying for this fleet?

Hi Alan,

...

I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. <<

You should read Elon Musk's view of the world problems. Start reading here: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html

The interesting part (for this thread at least) is about the climatic and energy problems. We need less privately owned cars, because all cars are used only 10% of the day. The other 90% they just occupy space. That's where autonmous driving kicks in: You just call a car and it will drive to your location. After you're done, it just waits for the next caller. And guess wwhat: The Tesla Model3 is already completely adopted to that idea. It's completely electronically controlled (that's why you don't find any regular switches, knobs or whatever, besides of the some elementary things like blinker, light, direction). The idea is that your car earns his money at times where you don't need it, by renting it to other passengers. We could reduce pollution, energy-consumption and city-crowding with that concept. Just imagine a car which parks itself, connects to a charger by itself and drives to your location to pick you up. All done with AI and autonmous driving.

wOOdy

+2 On 10-Nov-2017 5:38 PM, Alan Bourke wrote:

<......>

I think if it's work commuting we're trying to eliminate then decentralisation and serious adoption of homeworking would be a more realistic goal.

On 2017-11-10 05:23, Jürgen Wondzinski wrote:

Hi Alan,

...

...

I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. <<

You should read Elon Musk's view of the world problems. Start reading here: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html

The interesting part (for this thread at least) is about the climatic and energy problems. We need less privately owned cars, because all cars are used only 10% of the day. The other 90% they just occupy space. That's where autonmous driving kicks in: You just call a car and it will drive to your location. After you're done, it just waits for the next caller. And guess wwhat: The Tesla Model3 is already completely adopted to that idea. It's completely electronically controlled (that's why you don't find any regular switches, knobs or whatever, besides of the some elementary things like blinker, light, direction). The idea is that your car earns his money at times where you don't need it, by renting it to other passengers. We could reduce pollution, energy-consumption and city-crowding with that concept. Just imagine a car which parks itself, connects to a charger by itself and drives to your location to pick you up. All done with AI and autonmous driving.

wOOdy

https://www.google.com/search?q=SkyNet&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=uni...

lol

fact is, people are lousy drivers, and imperfect >automation is already better.

I keep hearing this but based on what evidence? It might do OK on wide motorways\freeways\autobahns but take it somewhere like the centre of Milan at rush hour.

On 13/11/2017 11:04, John Weller wrote:

Milan, rush hour - it'll need a complete processor just to handle the horn!

Not seen Milan rush hour but can't be any worse than Rome.  That was scary just trying to cross the road - on a crossing!

Peter

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many of those deaths are alcohol and drug related, possibly fixed with self-driving cars

From: Ted Roche tedroche@gmail.com To: "profox@leafe.com" profox@leafe.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [NF] Open systems Drive you crazy

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 4:22 AM, Alan Bourke alanpbourke@fastmail.fm wrote:

I doubt we'll see widespread adoption of fully autonomous road vehicles in any of our lifetimes.

I doubt the automobile will replace the horse. People want to feel in charge, go where they want to go, and cars are so unreliable, breaking down all the time.

Even if the tech problems were solved, which they are far from being despite the hype, I'm still unclear as to what problem it would solve. Road deaths? I suspect putting the money into driver education and enforcement would yield better returns.

Despite pouring millions into education, insurance programs, safety devices from seatbelts to airbags, deaths per million miles went UP last year. In the US alone, 40 THOUSAND people died on the roads. The fact is, people are lousy drivers, and imperfect automation is already better, but the numbers.

About the only sensible application I can see is for disabled people.

The only thing is, we're all disabled.

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