Hey there Foxers!
I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting. And, yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as [NF]).
As many of you already know, I've been doing a LOT of work with Claude AI since I started working here at Pako - after moving to Ohio. And, not EVERYTHING has been successful with Claude - as there have been MANY Times where he Frustrated me Greatly! Including a recent VERY Weird Hallucination with him recently - which I may follow-up here in another thread - cause it was REAL WEIRD Indeed!
So - just a little back story. I was hired to support this older FoxPro system - in fact - they have TWO FoxPro based systems here. Of course, part of the deal is to help in the conversion of the system to C#. And, since I literally have really no exp. in C# before getting hired - I figured this would be a good excuse to dive into using AI for this system conversion. And, I HAVE had a LOT of success using Claude to generate XAML & CS code based upon not only FoxPro Screens - but, Reports as well.
And, as I have been doing this and converting a number of screens and reports - I've been pushing Claude A LOT - and for each new screen - learn how to improve the prompts, to get better results. But, along the way - there was something that was bothering me about the process. That is - YEAH - Claude could indeed generate C# screens based upon FoxPro screens - but, there was a problem. The screens it would produce were kinda sloppy. And, I knew WHY this was case. It was pretty obvious. BECAUSE - Claude had no "Vision"! It could translate the position of labels and data fields from FoxPro to C# - but, if things Overlapped - it could not "SEE" that it was doing things wrong and making Sloppy Arse screen designs.
Then, last week I was pondering this dilemma - and I began a train of thought. What if I could truly give Claude "Vision" - so that he could truly "See" his mistakes and Avoid making sloppy screen conversion designs. Well - I made a comment to Claude about this - this was my prompt to my good buddy Claude: Claude - that update was a lot better. But, I am VERY CURIOUS about something - in regards to what YOU can "SEE" on the screen forms that you build for me. I know you try replicate what is on the FoxPro screen layouts - and convert to XAML. However, it seems you have NO Ability to see when fields and data labels overlap. Am I right? Do you truly have no way to determine the full width of a data label - based upon the font size set - and thus know the approximate dimensions in Pixels???
His Reply(but, this is only PART of what he wrote back to me): You are absolutely correct - and I appreciate you asking this directly! Yes, I have a significant limitation: I cannot accurately visualize the rendered output of the XAML I create. Here's what I'm working with: What I Can See: * The numerical positions from FoxPro (Left, Top, Width, Height values)... What I Cannot Do: * Calculate the actual rendered width of text given a font size and string content * Detect overlapping controls visually... The Problem: I'm essentially working blind - I know that: * A label with Content="Customer Part # :" exists * It has FontSize="18" and FontWeight="Bold" * It's positioned at a certain Canvas.Left position... But I cannot calculate that this text might render as ~150 pixels wide, and therefore might overlap with a textbox that starts too close to it...
*** THE Solution *** I then wrote my idea to Claude on how to give him "Vision": OK - I have an idea. I'm putting the letter "X" on the screen. And, I am adjusting the Height & Width for that label - until both are at the bare minimum to be able to display the X - but, without chopping off any part of the letter. Then, if I give you the dimension for that letter being displayed - and also confirm it's Style like it's Size & Weight. Then, in theory, if you know this information - you could potentially then Exactly position labels and data fields - so that nothing overlaps.
Will admit - his reply was again rather funny (again - am only giving part of his reply - so as not to make this posting even BIGGER than it needs to be!): YES - you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! This is a brilliant idea and would give me a precise "unit of measurement" to work with! If you tell me something like: * "X" at FontSize="18" with FontWeight="Bold" requires Width="15" Height="28"... Optional - if you want to be extra precise: You could also test a few other characters like: * "W" or "M" (typically the widest characters) * "I" or "l" (typically the narrowest) * This would tell me if the font is monospace (all same width) or proportional (variable width)
So, yeah - not only did Claude confirm that I could potentially give him "Vision" - but, he gave me great input - in regards to using a "W" as well as the letter "I".
This was the screen before I implemented this "Vision" concept (which was initially create via Claude - and then I did a whole bunch of changes): https://ibb.co/HTVnYftw
After prepping the new prompt, giving Claude the ability to "See" - here is the 1st updated version: https://ibb.co/FqL5mTXV
So - there you have it.
I'd be curious to know what folks thought about this - especially Mr. Roberts - who is also extensively using Claude!
L8r G8rs, -Kurt
Not an AI fan, but I have to say that this is a great idea, good solution, and the results are great. Wonderful job of using old tech with new!
On Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025 at 11:38 AM, Kurt Wendt kwendt@pakoinc.com wrote:
Hey there Foxers!
I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting. And, yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as [NF]).
This is great, Kurt! It is interesting to see the different challenges of doing AI-assisted web development vs desktop development. I recently added mcp servers for playwright and Chrome Dev Tools to my arsenal to allow Claude to navigate web apps and see things himself. If you aren't already uploading screenshots manually in your prompt, you could also do that. I did a quick google search to see if there were any "mcp servers that can take screenshots of a desktop app". and it appears there are a few. You might try something like https://github.com/codingthefuturewithai/screenshot_mcp_server to further speed things up. I have a another pet Visual FoxPro app that I've been working on converting to a web app in my (non-existent) spare time, and I'm finding that Claude is a great help in this process. I initially ran bin2prg on the entire project so Claude could read the code better, but there are lots of challenges with a conversion like that! It is always good to hear your progress and insights!
On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 10:48 AM Vincent Teachout vinny@caracal.net wrote:
Not an AI fan, but I have to say that this is a great idea, good solution, and the results are great. Wonderful job of using old tech with new!
On Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025 at 11:38 AM, Kurt Wendt < kwendt@pakoinc.com> wrote:
Hey there Foxers!
I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited
about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting. And, yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as [NF]).
[excessive quoting removed by server]
Hey there Jeff - thanks SO Much for the Kudos!
Yes, the MCP for Playwright looks rather interesting - but, it seems it's for purely web based apps - and not for desktop apps, which is what I work on purely here at work. As for uploading pics to Claude - yes, I've actually done that for error messages - and it seems he has no problem reading the actual error messages. But, as for uploading images to Claude - with a screen design - for him to potentially understand screen design layout issues - that sounds like it could also be an interesting approach. I may give that a shot at some point soon.
For me, right now - the ability to have it properly generate XAML code - based upon a FoxPro screen - and using my technique to give Claude "sight" - I think it will be a bit of a game changer for doing FoxPro system conversions - to try and get things done as quickly as possible. Keep in mind - we have not One but, TWO big FoxPro based systems here. So, a lot of work to be done in converting them to C#. The 2nd app - has not even been TOUCHED (in regards to converting it out of FoxPro). So - the more I can fine-tune my conversion methodologies for FoxPro conversions - the quicker we can go with the conversion processes.
I was even thinking today - it might be interesting to do a formal write-up of my whole process, what I have been learning - and maybe write it up as a Book, or even a whole set of Video tutorials. Since, obviously - what I learn - and prove that my processes can truly accelerate the conversion process - I'm sure many other folks out there in the world could benefit - in regards to other folks that want to move away from FoxPro.
Again - I'm glad folks here actually find it interesting - as to what I am trying to accomplish with Claude.
-K ________________________________________ From: ProFox profox-bounces@leafe.com on behalf of Jeff Roberts jefflroberts@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 12:24 PM To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Giving AI Claude SIGHT!
This is great, Kurt! It is interesting to see the different challenges of doing AI-assisted web development vs desktop development. I recently added mcp servers for playwright and Chrome Dev Tools to my arsenal to allow Claude to navigate web apps and see things himself. If you aren't already uploading screenshots manually in your prompt, you could also do that. I did a quick google search to see if there were any "mcp servers that can take screenshots of a desktop app". and it appears there are a few. You might try something like https://github.com/codingthefuturewithai/screenshot_mcp_server%C2%A0to further
speed things up. I have a another pet Visual FoxPro app that I've been working on converting to a web app in my (non-existent) spare time, and I'm finding that Claude is a great help in this process. I initially ran bin2prg on the entire project so Claude could read the code better, but there are lots of challenges with a conversion like that! It is always good to hear your progress and insights!
On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 10:48 AM Vincent Teachout vinny@caracal.net wrote:
Not an AI fan, but I have to say that this is a great idea, good solution, and the results are great. Wonderful job of using old tech with new!
On Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025 at 11:38 AM, Kurt Wendt < kwendt@pakoinc.com> wrote:
Hey there Foxers! I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited
about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting. And, yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as [NF]).
[excessive quoting removed by server]
_______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: https://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: https://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: https://leafe.com/archives This message: https://leafe.com/archives/byMID/CAMandq-P98U1kGeAkfVYMufsjjk=mz4YvNh0MELdLc... ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Kurt,
Slightly on topic - the latest version of Chilkat added an AI class.
"Chilkat’s AI API acts as a unified interface for working with multiple AI providers.
Instead of learning and coding separately for OpenAI (ChatGPT), Google (Gemini), Anthropic (Claude), XAi (Grok), DeepSeek, and Perplexity, etc., developers can use Chilkat’s consistent set of functions. Chilkat takes care of the differences between each provider’s REST API—such as authentication, request formatting, and response handling."
One class, connect to 5 different LLMs.
For a while I was internally floating an idea to build ChatVFP, but decided it wasn't worth the effort. Now I'm glad I didn't.
I've got some ChilkatVFP work to do...
https://www.chilkatsoft.com/refdoc/xChilkatAiRef.html
Bill Anderson
On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 7:14 AM Kurt Wendt kwendt@pakoinc.com wrote:
Hey there Jeff - thanks SO Much for the Kudos!
Yes, the MCP for Playwright looks rather interesting - but, it seems it's for purely web based apps - and not for desktop apps, which is what I work on purely here at work. As for uploading pics to Claude - yes, I've actually done that for error messages - and it seems he has no problem reading the actual error messages. But, as for uploading images to Claude - with a screen design - for him to potentially understand screen design layout issues - that sounds like it could also be an interesting approach. I may give that a shot at some point soon.
For me, right now - the ability to have it properly generate XAML code - based upon a FoxPro screen - and using my technique to give Claude "sight"
- I think it will be a bit of a game changer for doing FoxPro system
conversions - to try and get things done as quickly as possible. Keep in mind - we have not One but, TWO big FoxPro based systems here. So, a lot of work to be done in converting them to C#. The 2nd app - has not even been TOUCHED (in regards to converting it out of FoxPro). So - the more I can fine-tune my conversion methodologies for FoxPro conversions - the quicker we can go with the conversion processes.
I was even thinking today - it might be interesting to do a formal write-up of my whole process, what I have been learning - and maybe write it up as a Book, or even a whole set of Video tutorials. Since, obviously - what I learn - and prove that my processes can truly accelerate the conversion process - I'm sure many other folks out there in the world could benefit - in regards to other folks that want to move away from FoxPro.
Again - I'm glad folks here actually find it interesting - as to what I am trying to accomplish with Claude.
-K ________________________________________ From: ProFox profox-bounces@leafe.com on behalf of Jeff Roberts < jefflroberts@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 12:24 PM To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Giving AI Claude SIGHT!
This is great, Kurt! It is interesting to see the different challenges of doing AI-assisted web development vs desktop development. I recently added mcp servers for playwright and Chrome Dev Tools to my arsenal to allow Claude to navigate web apps and see things himself. If you aren't already uploading screenshots manually in your prompt, you could also do that. I did a quick google search to see if there were any "mcp servers that can take screenshots of a desktop app". and it appears there are a few. You might try something like https://github.com/codingthefuturewithai/screenshot_mcp_server to further
speed things up. I have a another pet Visual FoxPro app that I've been working on converting to a web app in my (non-existent) spare time, and I'm finding that Claude is a great help in this process. I initially ran bin2prg on the entire project so Claude could read the code better, but there are lots of challenges with a conversion like that! It is always good to hear your progress and insights!
On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 10:48 AM Vincent Teachout vinny@caracal.net wrote:
Not an AI fan, but I have to say that this is a great idea, good
solution,
and the results are great. Wonderful job of using old tech with new!
On Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025 at 11:38 AM, Kurt Wendt < kwendt@pakoinc.com> wrote:
Hey there Foxers! I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited
about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting.
And,
yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as
[NF]).
[excessive quoting removed by server]
Thanks Vince for your Kind words - I really appreciate it!!!
________________________________________ From: ProFox profox-bounces@leafe.com on behalf of Vincent Teachout vinny@caracal.net Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 11:48 AM To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Giving AI Claude SIGHT!
[You don't often get email from vinny@caracal.net. Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification%C2%A0]
Not an AI fan, but I have to say that this is a great idea, good solution, and the results are great. Wonderful job of using old tech with new!
On Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025 at 11:38 AM, Kurt Wendt kwendt@pakoinc.com wrote:
Hey there Foxers!
I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting. And, yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as [NF]).
_______________________________________________
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