I finished the Python course at CodeAcademy per the recommendation of someone on this list and although I still have the final project to do, it occurs to me that I have no clue as to what version of Python I should be trying to work with going forward.
There seems to be valid arguments for both sides on the interwebs, but what do the VFP programmers who use Python advise?
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.
Email: mailto:paul@tpcqpc.com paul@tpcqpc.com
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How many versions of VFP do you work with? I have a couple of versions installed, in order to support clients who are locked in for some reason or another.
Learn, use and master 3, because that's the future. Fall back to 2 if you run into that (rare) app that still requires it. It's okay to keep multiple around, unlike proprietary vendors (like MS) that upgrade you to the latest.
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I finished the Python course at CodeAcademy per the recommendation of someone on this list and although I still have the final project to do, it occurs to me that I have no clue as to what version of Python I should be trying to work with going forward.
There seems to be valid arguments for both sides on the interwebs, but what do the VFP programmers who use Python advise?
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.
Email: mailto:paul@tpcqpc.com paul@tpcqpc.com
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I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python 3.x sets up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one version or the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
I know it was a rhetorical question but I use VFP 6, VFP 9 and on really rare occasions I break out FoxLan! :)
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc. Email: paul@tpcqpc.com
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 3:34 PM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Python: 2.x vs 3.x
How many versions of VFP do you work with? I have a couple of versions installed, in order to support clients who are locked in for some reason or another.
Learn, use and master 3, because that's the future. Fall back to 2 if you run into that (rare) app that still requires it. It's okay to keep multiple around, unlike proprietary vendors (like MS) that upgrade you to the latest.
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I finished the Python course at CodeAcademy per the recommendation of someone on this list and although I still have the final project to do, it occurs to me that I have no clue as to what version of Python I should be trying to work with going forward.
There seems to be valid arguments for both sides on the interwebs, but what do the VFP programmers who use Python advise?
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.
Email: mailto:paul@tpcqpc.com paul@tpcqpc.com
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On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python 3.x sets up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one version or the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
Python has virtualenv, which is a sort of sandbox which prevents different versions of software from colliding with each other. You can create a virtualenv, and when it is activated, it makes it so that only the version of Python and any installed libraries are available. Switch to a different virtualenv, and its like you moved to a different machine with different versions and installed stuff. Tip: install virtualenvwrapper to make working with virtualenvs a breeze.
-- Ed Leafe
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Gotta say, right now it is all very confusing. From all the different frameworks and ide's and modules and platforms and licensing and versions I'm making myself crazy trying to figure out how to proceed.
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
I need another Foxpro I guess.
Paul Tarver
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:18 PM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python 3.x sets up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one version or the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
Python has virtualenv, which is a sort of sandbox which prevents different versions of software from colliding with each other. You can create a virtualenv, and when it is activated, it makes it so that only the version of Python and any installed libraries are available. Switch to a different virtualenv, and its like you moved to a different machine with different versions and installed stuff. Tip: install virtualenvwrapper to make working with virtualenvs a breeze.
-- Ed Leafe
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On Aug 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
Well, that's what Dabo is. We haven't worked on it in a while, as we both have been pulled in different directions due to employment demands, but AFAIK, it still works fine.
Oh, and it's still Python 2.
-- Ed Leafe
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I wondered when we would get to Dabo. But I assumed after your comment that 3.x Python was the future that Dabo might work with 3.
How can I reconcile the two pieces of advice?
Paul
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 20, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Aug 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
Well, that's what Dabo is. We haven't worked on it in a while, as we both have been pulled in different directions due to employment demands, but AFAIK, it still works fine.
Oh, and it's still Python 2.
-- Ed Leafe
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On Aug 20, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I wondered when we would get to Dabo. But I assumed after your comment that 3.x Python was the future that Dabo might work with 3.
How can I reconcile the two pieces of advice?
Easy: Dabo depends on a library called 'wxPython' (https://wxpython.org/), which has been struggling to get things working in Python 3. They do have a version that supposedly does, but neither Paul nor I have had the time to work on getting that working with Dabo. So as I said earlier: "So here's the thing: if you're working on an existing app that was written in Python 2.x, then use 2.x. In every other case, there's no reason to use anything but the latest Python."
-- Ed Leafe
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On 2017-08-20 12:49, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
Gotta say, right now it is all very confusing. From all the different frameworks and ide's and modules and platforms and licensing and versions I'm making myself crazy trying to figure out how to proceed.
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
I need another Foxpro I guess.
Paul Tarver
Have you checked out Xojo? See the Profox archives for links, especially from our own Kevin Cully who's used it and loves it.
If you just want to build Windows desktop apps, learn something else. Something like Xojo, or C# and one of the .NET presentation frameworks.
Python is an excellent general purpose language and has many fantastic frameworks for web apps.
If you're building Windows database apps, what's wrong with VFP?
Laurie
On 21 August 2017 at 08:04, Alan Bourke alanpbourke@fastmail.fm wrote:
If you just want to build Windows desktop apps, learn something else. Something like Xojo, or C# and one of the .NET presentation frameworks.
Python is an excellent general purpose language and has many fantastic frameworks for web apps.
-- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017, at 05:49 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
Gotta say, right now it is all very confusing. From all the different frameworks and ide's and modules and platforms and licensing and versions I'm making myself crazy trying to figure out how to proceed.
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
I need another Foxpro I guess.
Paul Tarver
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:18 PM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python
3.x sets
up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one
version or
the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
Python has virtualenv, which is a sort of sandbox which prevents
different versions of software from colliding with each other. You can create a virtualenv, and when it is activated, it makes it so that only the version of Python and any installed libraries are available. Switch to a different virtualenv, and its like you moved to a different machine with different versions and installed stuff. Tip: install virtualenvwrapper to make working with virtualenvs a breeze.
-- Ed Leafe
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VFP is the best but it´s obsolete. We must look the future. Ivan Martinez
-----Mensaje original----- De: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] En nombre de Laurie Alvey Enviado el: lunes, 21 de agosto de 2017 13:01 Para: ProFox Email List Asunto: Re: [NF] Python: 2.x vs 3.x
If you're building Windows database apps, what's wrong with VFP?
Laurie
On 21 August 2017 at 08:04, Alan Bourke alanpbourke@fastmail.fm wrote:
If you just want to build Windows desktop apps, learn something else. Something like Xojo, or C# and one of the .NET presentation frameworks.
Python is an excellent general purpose language and has many fantastic frameworks for web apps.
-- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017, at 05:49 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
Gotta say, right now it is all very confusing. From all the different frameworks and ide's and modules and platforms and licensing and versions I'm making myself crazy trying to figure out how
to proceed.
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
I need another Foxpro I guess.
Paul Tarver
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:18 PM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python
3.x sets
up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one
version or
the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
Python has virtualenv, which is a sort of sandbox which prevents
different versions of software from colliding with each other. You can create a virtualenv, and when it is activated, it makes it so that only the version of Python and any installed libraries are available. Switch to a different virtualenv, and its like you moved to a different machine with different versions and installed stuff. Tip: install virtualenvwrapper to make working with virtualenvs a breeze.
-- Ed Leafe
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"We must look the future."
Only if the future is a step forward and not a step backward.
This is my third or fourth attempt at finding and alternative and keep ending up in the same place:
NOTHING runs like a Fox.
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc. Email: paul@tpcqpc.com
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Martinez (imvh.g.c) Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 12:47 PM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: RE: [NF] Python: 2.x vs 3.x
VFP is the best but it´s obsolete. We must look the future. Ivan Martinez
-----Mensaje original----- De: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] En nombre de Laurie Alvey Enviado el: lunes, 21 de agosto de 2017 13:01 Para: ProFox Email List Asunto: Re: [NF] Python: 2.x vs 3.x
If you're building Windows database apps, what's wrong with VFP?
Laurie
On 21 August 2017 at 08:04, Alan Bourke alanpbourke@fastmail.fm wrote:
If you just want to build Windows desktop apps, learn something else. Something like Xojo, or C# and one of the .NET presentation frameworks.
Python is an excellent general purpose language and has many fantastic frameworks for web apps.
-- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017, at 05:49 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
Gotta say, right now it is all very confusing. From all the different frameworks and ide's and modules and platforms and licensing and versions I'm making myself crazy trying to figure out how
to proceed.
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
I need another Foxpro I guess.
Paul Tarver
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:18 PM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python
3.x sets
up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one
version or
the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
Python has virtualenv, which is a sort of sandbox which prevents
different versions of software from colliding with each other. You can create a virtualenv, and when it is activated, it makes it so that only the version of Python and any installed libraries are available. Switch to a different virtualenv, and its like you moved to a different machine with different versions and installed stuff. Tip: install virtualenvwrapper to make working with virtualenvs a breeze.
-- Ed Leafe
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Have you looked at XSharp? Not sure where they're at in terms of supporting VFP syntax but they intend to.
The best and obsolete? Stimmt nicht …
Thierry Nivelet http://foxincloud.com/ Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
Le 21 août 2017 à 19:47, Ivan Martinez (imvh.g.c) ivanmvh@gmail.com a écrit :
VFP is the best but it´s obsolete. We must look the future. Ivan Martinez
-----Mensaje original----- De: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] En nombre de Laurie Alvey Enviado el: lunes, 21 de agosto de 2017 13:01 Para: ProFox Email List Asunto: Re: [NF] Python: 2.x vs 3.x
If you're building Windows database apps, what's wrong with VFP?
Laurie
On 21 August 2017 at 08:04, Alan Bourke alanpbourke@fastmail.fm wrote:
If you just want to build Windows desktop apps, learn something else. Something like Xojo, or C# and one of the .NET presentation frameworks.
Python is an excellent general purpose language and has many fantastic frameworks for web apps.
-- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017, at 05:49 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote: Gotta say, right now it is all very confusing. From all the different frameworks and ide's and modules and platforms and licensing and versions I'm making myself crazy trying to figure out how
to proceed.
All I want to do is find a language and/or platform to build windows desktop (for now, web later) applications with strong easy database support and distribute the applications commercially that doesn't cost an arm and a leg though I'm willing to give a leg.
I need another Foxpro I guess.
Paul Tarver
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:18 PM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
I guess that was part of the question. The installation for Python
3.x sets
up paths and other stuff that I thought would be exclusive to one
version or
the other. But I guess you are saying they coexist happily, correct?
Python has virtualenv, which is a sort of sandbox which prevents
different versions of software from colliding with each other. You can create a virtualenv, and when it is activated, it makes it so that only the version of Python and any installed libraries are available. Switch to a different virtualenv, and its like you moved to a different machine with different versions and installed stuff. Tip: install virtualenvwrapper to make working with virtualenvs a breeze.
-- Ed Leafe
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On 2017-08-21 13:47, Ivan Martinez (imvh.g.c) wrote:
VFP is the best but it´s obsolete. We must look the future. Ivan Martinez
Ivan,
When is VFP going to stop running? If it runs on Windows 10 today, and M$ is just patching Windows 10 from here out, my wager is that our VFP9 apps will continue to run just fine for at least the next decade or 3. :-)
++1
On 22-Aug-17 3:06 PM, mbsoftwaresolutions@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:
On 2017-08-21 13:47, Ivan Martinez (imvh.g.c) wrote:
VFP is the best but it´s obsolete. We must look the future. Ivan Martinez
Ivan,
When is VFP going to stop running? If it runs on Windows 10 today, and M$ is just patching Windows 10 from here out, my wager is that our VFP9 apps will continue to run just fine for at least the next decade or 3. :-)
[excessive quoting removed by server]
Nothing, but I wouldn't use DBF files.
On 2017-08-21 15:53, Alan Bourke wrote:
Nothing, but I wouldn't use DBF files.
-- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
On Mon, 21 Aug 2017, at 06:00 PM, Laurie Alvey wrote:
If you're building Windows database apps, what's wrong with VFP?
Laurie
Exactly. I've been using MySQL (later MariaDB) since 2004. Apps still kicking asses everywhere! :-)
Paul
I'm currently learning Python too via the Django framework. Unless you have a lot of legacy code to maintain or third party libs that are stuck on 2.x then 3 all the way IMO.
I think I instinctively thought 3.x was correct since I have no legacy code and this is my first foray into the language. However, there appears to be such a huge number of addons, plugins, extensions and other third party code for the two versions, I didn't want to limit my options.
My long term goal is to write and distribute a Python desktop application as an upgrade to VFP 6 product I've been selling and supporting for years now. The rules for the app are well defined as are the user needs. I thought it might be a great place to start my Python journey, although I have to admit I'm feeling a little overwhelmed starting at ground zero with no library to rely on and no clear understanding of how to get from the development environment to a distributable product, but I guess that is the graduate level class, right? :)
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc. Email: paul@tpcqpc.com
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 3:52 PM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Python: 2.x vs 3.x
Paul
I'm currently learning Python too via the Django framework. Unless you have a lot of legacy code to maintain or third party libs that are stuck on 2.x then 3 all the way IMO.
-- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017, at 08:32 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
I finished the Python course at CodeAcademy per the recommendation of someone on this list and although I still have the final project to do, it occurs to me that I have no clue as to what version of Python I should be trying to work with going forward.
There seems to be valid arguments for both sides on the interwebs, but what do the VFP programmers who use Python advise?
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.
Email: mailto:paul@tpcqpc.com paul@tpcqpc.com
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Hi Paul,
Definitely Python 3. For all but the most narrow use case you can ignore the FUD about Python 2 vs Python 3.
Welcome to the club!
Malcolm
On Aug 19, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
There seems to be valid arguments for both sides on the interwebs, but what do the VFP programmers who use Python advise?
Python 3 is the future. Python 2 is the past.
So here's the thing: if you're working on an existing app that was written in Python 2.x, then use 2.x. In every other case, there's no reason to use anything but the latest Python. And if you need an additional nudge, support for Python 2.x will end in 2020, so if you do find yourself working on a 2.x app, you primary focus should be upgrading it to 3.x in the next 3 years.
-- Ed Leafe
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On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 12:12 AM, Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
And if you need an additional nudge, support for Python 2.x will end in 2020
Sounds like it's time for a Y2K2X crash program!
-
Alan Bourke -
AndyHC -
Ed Leafe -
Ivan Martinez (imvh.g.c) -
Laurie Alvey -
Malcolm Greene -
mbsoftwaresolutions＠mbsoftwaresolutions.com -
Paul H. Tarver -
Ted Roche -
Thierry Nivelet