Hi folks,
If anyone here has worked with VoIP PBX systems (after all, I'm told, it's "just a computer"), can you answer this question?
Is it an "industry standard" for these systems to fail to pass through basic signaling from the PSTN (public switched telephone network) to the ears of people using the phones?
We recently purchased such a system and, while it transmit a "ringing" signal when we dial a number outside our system, it does not transmit "busy" signals when the line we dialed is engaged. It also does not transmit fax tones when we dial a fax number (useful for diagnosing faxing problems), nor does it transmit recorded audio from a phone company, such as "The number you have reached is no longer in service" (useful for what should be obvious reasons).
The vendor claims that our expectations that a PBX phone system should do these things are unrealistic, and that if we want it fixed, we should pay for "support".
My contention is that these failures are product defects that should be repaired under warranty.
What is your experience on these things?
Thank you very much.
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
Ken Dibble wrote on 2016-03-28:
Hi folks,
If anyone here has worked with VoIP PBX systems (after all, I'm told, it's "just a computer"), can you answer this question?
Is it an "industry standard" for these systems to fail to pass through basic signaling from the PSTN (public switched telephone network) to the ears of people using the phones?
We recently purchased such a system and, while it transmit a "ringing" signal when we dial a number outside our system, it does not transmit "busy" signals when the line we dialed is engaged. It also does not transmit fax tones when we dial a fax number (useful for diagnosing faxing problems), nor does it transmit recorded audio from a phone company, such as "The number you have reached is no longer in service" (useful for what should be obvious reasons).
The vendor claims that our expectations that a PBX phone system should do these things are unrealistic, and that if we want it fixed, we should pay for "support".
My contention is that these failures are product defects that should be repaired under warranty.
What is your experience on these things?
Thank you very much.
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
Ken,
I don't know if our system is a VOIP PBX. I do know our phones are VOIP, and it is a box in our computer room. We get busy signals, out of service messages, and recorded messages about circuits being busy.
If it never worked, that is a warranty issue. If it used to work, and now doesn't and no one has changed things on your end, sounds like a codec issue according to this page: https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/714713-busy-signal-when-dialing-outsi de-line-or-voicemail-cisco-7960-phone-and-asterisk
You've reached the end of my experience. I do hope you get it worked out.
Tracy Pearson PowerChurch Software
Thank you to everyone who responded.
I spent most of the day yesterday researching this. I think the problem is related to implementation of "early media" and SIP Code 183 messaging. We are not using SIP trunks; we are interfacing with the PSTN via a Level 3 (formerly Time-Warner Telecom) PRI. I think there is/are a configuration issue(s) related to this messaging somewhere either in the Level 3 service, the Patton gateway, the 3CX VoIP software, and/or the YeaLink phones.
This vendor lowballed the bid because, in part, they were not highly experienced in this type of work. They're a white-box computer and IT administrative services vendor who only recently got into phone systems. Ours is, by a few orders of magnitude, the largest phone installation they've ever done, and they had only done a literal handful before us. We trusted them because they've been very good on strictly computer stuff. Their management is failing to accept that this is different: They did not sell us a server, software, switches and phones, separately. They sold us a phone *system*, and they are responsible for all aspects of the system functioning properly.
Digital phone systems are also computers, and some of them, including the one we just replaced, also have separate hardware and software components. The fact that VoIP PBX software can run on a Windows computer does not, IMO, change the "business model" with regard to the sale of phone systems in any respect. A digital PBX vendor would immediately accept responsibility for failing to deliver a properly-configured system and fix it, for no charge.
I suspect that a more experienced provider would understand this problem and would not have had much difficulty in getting the configuration(s) done correctly. This vendor, due to inexperience, underbid the installation labor cost, and underestimated the difficulty of properly configuring our system, and is now trying to recoup its losses.
I sympathize with them, but I am not going to pay them to learn how to design and install phone systems properly.
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
I think folks have gotten pretty lackadaisical with "acceptable level of service" for computers these days. The phone industry operates at a different level.
I hope you've got some good leverage in emphasizing this message to your vendor.
I know a few locals who design/build/install/support Asterisk installations and them tell me it's a tough business.
On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Ken Dibble krdibble@stny.rr.com wrote:
Thank you to everyone who responded.
I spent most of the day yesterday researching this. I think the problem is related to implementation of "early media" and SIP Code 183 messaging. We are not using SIP trunks; we are interfacing with the PSTN via a Level 3 (formerly Time-Warner Telecom) PRI. I think there is/are a configuration issue(s) related to this messaging somewhere either in the Level 3 service, the Patton gateway, the 3CX VoIP software, and/or the YeaLink phones.
This vendor lowballed the bid because, in part, they were not highly experienced in this type of work. They're a white-box computer and IT administrative services vendor who only recently got into phone systems. Ours is, by a few orders of magnitude, the largest phone installation they've ever done, and they had only done a literal handful before us. We trusted them because they've been very good on strictly computer stuff. Their management is failing to accept that this is different: They did not sell us a server, software, switches and phones, separately. They sold us a phone *system*, and they are responsible for all aspects of the system functioning properly.
Digital phone systems are also computers, and some of them, including the one we just replaced, also have separate hardware and software components. The fact that VoIP PBX software can run on a Windows computer does not, IMO, change the "business model" with regard to the sale of phone systems in any respect. A digital PBX vendor would immediately accept responsibility for failing to deliver a properly-configured system and fix it, for no charge.
I suspect that a more experienced provider would understand this problem and would not have had much difficulty in getting the configuration(s) done correctly. This vendor, due to inexperience, underbid the installation labor cost, and underestimated the difficulty of properly configuring our system, and is now trying to recoup its losses.
I sympathize with them, but I am not going to pay them to learn how to design and install phone systems properly.
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
[excessive quoting removed by server]
On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Ken Dibble krdibble@stny.rr.com wrote:
Is it an "industry standard" for these systems to fail to pass through basic signaling from the PSTN (public switched telephone network) to the ears of people using the phones?
We recently purchased such a system and, while it transmit a "ringing" signal when we dial a number outside our system, it does not transmit "busy" signals when the line we dialed is engaged. It also does not transmit fax tones when we dial a fax number (useful for diagnosing faxing problems), nor does it transmit recorded audio from a phone company, such as "The number you have reached is no longer in service" (useful for what should be obvious reasons).
None of that sounds right. A VOIP/PBX system should have more features than the old copper circuits, not less.
Sounds like a false statement from them.
On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Ken Dibble krdibble@stny.rr.com wrote:
Hi folks,
If anyone here has worked with VoIP PBX systems (after all, I'm told, it's "just a computer"), can you answer this question?
Is it an "industry standard" for these systems to fail to pass through basic signaling from the PSTN (public switched telephone network) to the ears of people using the phones?
We recently purchased such a system and, while it transmit a "ringing" signal when we dial a number outside our system, it does not transmit "busy" signals when the line we dialed is engaged. It also does not transmit fax tones when we dial a fax number (useful for diagnosing faxing problems), nor does it transmit recorded audio from a phone company, such as "The number you have reached is no longer in service" (useful for what should be obvious reasons).
The vendor claims that our expectations that a PBX phone system should do these things are unrealistic, and that if we want it fixed, we should pay for "support".
My contention is that these failures are product defects that should be repaired under warranty.
What is your experience on these things?
Thank you very much.
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
[excessive quoting removed by server]
Ken - I agree with everyone here. This doesn't sound right - and sounds like they are really screwing you guys over - and then demanding More money to resolve THEIR Own deficiencies!
At my previous job - I know they had a VOIP phone system in the office - it was installed while I worked there. Actually - it's the Dad of my manager - whose co. installed the system. So - if you want - maybe I could get you connected with them - and discuss your issues with them. Then maybe Drop the current jerks and get a New system!
Regards, Kurt Wendt Consultant
Tel. +1-212-747-9100 www.GlobeTax.com
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Russell Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 10:45 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] VoIP Phone Systems and PSTN Signalling
Sounds like a false statement from them.
On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Ken Dibble krdibble@stny.rr.com wrote:
Hi folks,
If anyone here has worked with VoIP PBX systems (after all, I'm told, it's "just a computer"), can you answer this question?
Is it an "industry standard" for these systems to fail to pass through basic signaling from the PSTN (public switched telephone network) to the ears of people using the phones?
We recently purchased such a system and, while it transmit a "ringing" signal when we dial a number outside our system, it does not transmit "busy" signals when the line we dialed is engaged. It also does not transmit fax tones when we dial a fax number (useful for diagnosing faxing problems), nor does it transmit recorded audio from a phone company, such as "The number you have reached is no longer in service" (useful for what should be obvious reasons).
The vendor claims that our expectations that a PBX phone system should do these things are unrealistic, and that if we want it fixed, we should pay for "support".
My contention is that these failures are product defects that should be repaired under warranty.
What is your experience on these things?
Thank you very much.
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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Ken Dibble -
Kurt Wendt -
Stephen Russell -
Ted Roche -
Tracy Pearson