On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Ken Dibble krdibble@stny.rr.com wrote:

I absolutely agree with about 90% of what you're saying. It's a real problem for me as well, trying to get people to nail down enough specifics about whatever problem they're reporting to enable me to reproduce it and fix it.

Totally agree. I have actually had clients call to complain that *our system* was broken because they couldn't log in, during a power failure. Um.

I also deeply appreciate all the help you've given me over the years.

My 10% is: I really, really dislike it when people tell me, as a consumer of computer-related stuff, that "You don't really want to do that. What you really need is...."

Well, I am certainly guilty of that, too. We all have our opinions about how things should be done.

And it's a tricky balance to try to judge from an email, if this is something you just banged together and we might suggest a better tactic, or if this is something that's run fine for a decade and is broken now because of some stupid update.

There are three ways to do anything in FoxPro, or no way at all. Each of those ways has their benefits and liabilities. We all like to share clever hacks.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"So, don't do that."

No, I know what I really want and really need. I'm the guy with the money, and I'm the guy who makes the decisions.

Well, I think I need to go back over our conversations and work up an invoice <g>.

My advice here is free, if your reaction is "No, I'm not going to do that" you've still gotten your money's worth.

I've seen a few posts lately that lay out an entire complex set of facts (yay!) and an expressed request not to suggest the whole thing be done differently. I appreciate the thoroughness, but have to admit some reaction of "I don't have time and resources to work through this" even if that's somewhat contradictory to what I said before. Frankly, sometimes you have to pay me to work out a problem. It's not a complaint, and please don't see it as a dig at you, but some things are too big and too complex to solve in the time I'm willing to devote to hanging out on a mailing list. And I'm not dredging for paid work, either: some of the networking problems posted are just beyond and not my skillset.

As most of my work these days is working on "legacy" systems, I appreciate that "things are the way they are because they got that way" and my job as a maintenance/repair/rescue programmer is to get the darned system working again, and not pointing out the previous programmer didn't understand what they were doing. Because maybe they did, and their solution was the best that could be done at the time. And maybe I'm the idiot who doesn't understand the elegance of the whole thing, ugly as it may be, it could be a "righteous hack" worthy of appreciating.

It's important to point out, to get that behavior from me, clients have to pay me :)

My advice here is free. Double your money back if not completely satisfied.

The fact that some computer geek decided, in their vast wisdom, that something that used to work just fine should no longer be available to me, or that something that used to be simple and self-contained should now be complex and require more steps, or that some feature that I relied on but they don't understand isn't "important" enough to retain, because they are trying to "protect" me or whatever else, doesn't impress me at all.

So there's my own rant, back atcha. :)

Well said. You ought to post "How to Answer a Question on the Internet."

Seriously. It's a good point of view, and worth reminding folks of.

P.S. TGIF!

At 08:02 2016-02-19, Ken Dibble krdibble@stny.rr.com wrote:

• Ted Roche wrote:

...

The Original Poster (OP) fails to explain:

• why they want to do this,
• what their environment is (OS, #records, performance needed, etc.),
• what they have tried as an alternative,
• the bigger picture of how they got themselves painted into this

corner, and what (ultimately) they *REALLY* need, which is not X to do Y but starting at A and end up at Y.

I absolutely agree with about 90% of what you're saying. It's a real problem for me as well, trying to get people to nail down enough specifics about whatever problem they're reporting to enable me to reproduce it and fix it.

I also deeply appreciate all the help you've given me over the years.

Ditto.

My 10% is: I really, really dislike it when people tell me, as a consumer of computer-related stuff, that "You don't really want to do that. What you really need is...."

No, I know what I really want and really need. I'm the guy with the money, and I'm the guy who makes the decisions.

The fact that some computer geek decided, in their vast wisdom, that something that used to work just fine should no longer be available to me, or that something that used to be simple and self-contained should now be complex and require more steps, or that some feature that I relied on but they don't understand isn't "important" enough to retain, because they are trying to "protect" me or whatever else, doesn't impress me at all.

"I absolutely agree with about 90% of what you're saying.", etc.

My 10% is: I really, really dislike it when people tell me, as a professional of computer-related stuff, that "I don't really want to do that. What I really need is...."

Yes, you may know what you really want (but not always) and really need (not nearly so often the case). You are the guy with the money, and you are the guy who makes the decisions, and none of this guarantees that you are not about to make a totally stupid decision, or one that is severely lacking, or one that could be much better if you would listen to the professional in the area instead of fighting him.

The fact that some client/customer/end user decided, in his less-than-vast wisdom in my area, that something has to be done this way and that is it doesn't impress me at all. Well, not favourably.

So, as you can see, there is something on both sides. People who do not listen are on both sides.

I have a new job which I hope will work out. Part of why I have it is because of this failure in communication. It is quite the juggling act.

So there's my own rant, back atcha. :)

And back to you.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko