As someone who has been studying how to elevate and treat my own programming as a craft instead of as a job for the past 25 years, I saw this article by Denis Stetskov and everyone here might enjoy reading it too. Disclaimer: this article is NOT against using AI in programming but rather it is focused crappy software engineering and quality control. The cliché we learned as newbie programmers Garbage In, Garbage Out still applies, but even more so when AI is included in the mix.
https://techtrenches.substack.com/p/the-great-software-quality-collapse
I thought it was an interesting article and one this group might enjoy discussing especially since its been quite in here for a while! J
PS: See you all at Virtual FoxFest later this month!
Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.
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On Oct 10, 2025, at 08:46, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
The cliché we learned as newbie programmers “Garbage In, Garbage Out” still applies, but even more so when AI is included in the mix.
The best line: "AI just weaponized existing incompetence."
-- Ed Leafe
Weird, I never saw Paul's message, just your reply.
I'm a little late to this, but I really enjoyed the discourse on What is Quality? in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
Eric
On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 9:18 AM Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Oct 10, 2025, at 08:46, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
The cliché we learned as newbie programmers “Garbage In, Garbage Out” still applies, but even
more so
when AI is included in the mix.
The best line: "AI just weaponized existing incompetence."
-- Ed Leafe
[excessive quoting removed by server]
Same here Eric - I also did NOT see it!
-K
-----Original Message----- From: ProFox profox-bounces@leafe.com On Behalf Of Eric Selje Sent: Friday, October 10, 2025 10:28 AM To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Quality In Software
Weird, I never saw Paul's message, just your reply.
I'm a little late to this, but I really enjoyed the discourse on What is Quality? in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
Eric
On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 9:18 AM Ed Leafe ed@leafe.com wrote:
On Oct 10, 2025, at 08:46, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
The cliché we learned as newbie programmers “Garbage In, Garbage Out” still applies, but even
more so
when AI is included in the mix.
The best line: "AI just weaponized existing incompetence."
-- Ed Leafe
[excessive quoting removed by server]
_______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: https://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: https://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: https://leafe.com/archives This message: https://leafe.com/archives/byMID/CAAwxvUmCWi7j+kqFvZJesKONH=AJbCsbSbr0WR20L2... ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 10:38 AM Eric Selje Eric@saltydogllc.com wrote:
Weird, I never saw Paul's message, just your reply.
Ed's server is okay, but Paul's originating domain has a rejection action on DMARC. I had to add a rule to my GMail to tell it NOT to flag leafe.com email as spam.
Here's the original headers I rec'd: <snip> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com designates 209.97.148.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom= profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com; dmarc=fail (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=QUARANTINE) header.from=tpcqpc.com <snip>
I'm a little late to this, but I really enjoyed the discourse on What is
Quality? in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
ZaAMM is a favorite. It's been too long, I'll need to re-read.
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On Oct 10, 2025, at 10:51, Ted Roche tedroche@gmail.com wrote:
Quality? in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
ZaAMM is a favorite. It's been too long, I'll need to re-read.
My degree is in Biochemistry. When people ask why I studied biochemistry without wanting to work in the field, I tell them that if I were a motorcycle, I'd want to study mechanics.
-- Ed Leafe
On Oct 10, 2025, at 09:28, Eric Selje Eric@saltydogllc.com wrote:
Weird, I never saw Paul's message, just your reply.
This is a problem without a solution. The DKIM header is for my domain, but the email has Paul's domain as the From address. If your email provider enforces strict DKIM matches, it will reject the email. But since my reply is from the same domain as the server, the DKIM matches, and your provider will let it through.
-- Ed Leafe
Gotta say - I'm rather bummed to hear that phrase of "AI just weaponized existing incompetence."
Why? Cause I've been doing a LOT of work with AI - and applying it my coding work!
But, yeah - I guess the idea that if Someone is Incompetent to begin with - it will Increase their incompetency!!!
Luckily I am not incompetent...
-K
-----Original Message----- From: ProFox profox-bounces@leafe.com On Behalf Of Ed Leafe Sent: Friday, October 10, 2025 10:19 AM To: ProFox Mailing List profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] Quality In Software
On Oct 10, 2025, at 08:46, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
The cliché we learned as newbie programmers “Garbage In, Garbage Out” still applies, but even more so when AI is included in the mix.
The best line: "AI just weaponized existing incompetence."
-- Ed Leafe
_______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: https://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: https://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: https://leafe.com/archives This message: https://leafe.com/archives/byMID/BEB39C8B-EBEF-4700-B86E-5D85570E199A@leafe.... ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
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Ed Leafe -
Eric Selje -
Kurt Wendt -
Paul H. Tarver -
Ted Roche