If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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I know that somebody else here HAS to ask you this question - so, I might as well be 1st!
So - Why VFP? I'm sure others will say the same thing. If someone is going to start to learn programming - why start them off in a language that was Killed Off by M$??
I don't mean to start a fight over this. And, I know folks will chime in and defend VFP. Heck - I do at times too - since VFP is STILL my core programming language. But, for a newbie - it may be best to start using some other language that is widely in use - maybe even something like Python - which is the 1st language my son seriously got into. He started seriously getting into Python last year about this time - then he even did an Internship this past summer - with a Physics researcher - writing programs to help analyze data. He was actually 15 when he started the Internship!
:-)
-K-
On 1/26/2018 10:22 AM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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On Fri, 26 Jan 2018, at 3:45 PM, Kurt at VR-FX wrote:
I know that somebody else here HAS to ask you this question - so, I might as well be 1st!
So - Why VFP?
+1 sadly.
I would start with Python also, or maybe Swift if you want to do a 'bracketed' language. Don't go bloody near JavaScript unless you want to put them off for life :)
No, I understand why you are asking the question and I don't mind providing you with an answer.
The primary reason is that I have been looking for a replacement development tool to do the specific work I do for the niche I serve for about five years now and I cannot find one that meets all of my personal and business requirements as well as Foxpro. However, in order to grow my business to the next level, I will ultimately need at least one more programmer who can do what I do using the tools and techniques I have developed over the last 25 years to help me accomplish that goal.
I have been operating as a lone wolf for a lot of years now but I realize I will need to teach my methods and techniques to someone and I freely admit my teaching skills are limited and therefore my request for suggestions. I have been presented with an opportunity for someone who might work into a job like an intern and I'm trying to get my options in place to give them the best chance to succeed.
paul
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt at VR-FX Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:46 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
I know that somebody else here HAS to ask you this question - so, I might as well be 1st!
So - Why VFP? I'm sure others will say the same thing. If someone is going to start to learn programming - why start them off in a language that was Killed Off by M$??
I don't mean to start a fight over this. And, I know folks will chime in and defend VFP. Heck - I do at times too - since VFP is STILL my core programming language. But, for a newbie - it may be best to start using some other language that is widely in use - maybe even something like Python - which is the 1st language my son seriously got into. He started seriously getting into Python last year about this time - then he even did an Internship this past summer - with a Physics researcher - writing programs to help analyze data. He was actually 15 when he started the Internship!
:-)
-K-
On 1/26/2018 10:22 AM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that
as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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Hey Paul,
In your particular case - yes, this does now make sense.
Regards,
Kurt
On 1/26/2018 12:14 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
No, I understand why you are asking the question and I don't mind providing you with an answer.
The primary reason is that I have been looking for a replacement development tool to do the specific work I do for the niche I serve for about five years now and I cannot find one that meets all of my personal and business requirements as well as Foxpro. However, in order to grow my business to the next level, I will ultimately need at least one more programmer who can do what I do using the tools and techniques I have developed over the last 25 years to help me accomplish that goal.
I have been operating as a lone wolf for a lot of years now but I realize I will need to teach my methods and techniques to someone and I freely admit my teaching skills are limited and therefore my request for suggestions. I have been presented with an opportunity for someone who might work into a job like an intern and I'm trying to get my options in place to give them the best chance to succeed.
paul
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt at VR-FX Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:46 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
I know that somebody else here HAS to ask you this question - so, I might as well be 1st!
So - Why VFP? I'm sure others will say the same thing. If someone is going to start to learn programming - why start them off in a language that was Killed Off by M$??
I don't mean to start a fight over this. And, I know folks will chime in and defend VFP. Heck - I do at times too - since VFP is STILL my core programming language. But, for a newbie - it may be best to start using some other language that is widely in use - maybe even something like Python - which is the 1st language my son seriously got into. He started seriously getting into Python last year about this time - then he even did an Internship this past summer - with a Physics researcher - writing programs to help analyze data. He was actually 15 when he started the Internship!
:-)
-K-
On 1/26/2018 10:22 AM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that
as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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Paul
There are some videos free here http://www.garfieldhudson.com/FreeVideos.aspx There are paid for option as well.
I recall mentioning these to Dave C. when Tom came onboard as his apprentice/replacement. Hows Tom doing anyway Dave, he must be one of the youngest VFP programmers.
Kind regards
Andrew Stirling 01250 870397 07910467915 support@calcpay.co.uk http://www.calcpay.co.uk
On 26/01/2018 17:14, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
No, I understand why you are asking the question and I don't mind providing you with an answer.
The primary reason is that I have been looking for a replacement development tool to do the specific work I do for the niche I serve for about five years now and I cannot find one that meets all of my personal and business requirements as well as Foxpro. However, in order to grow my business to the next level, I will ultimately need at least one more programmer who can do what I do using the tools and techniques I have developed over the last 25 years to help me accomplish that goal.
I have been operating as a lone wolf for a lot of years now but I realize I will need to teach my methods and techniques to someone and I freely admit my teaching skills are limited and therefore my request for suggestions. I have been presented with an opportunity for someone who might work into a job like an intern and I'm trying to get my options in place to give them the best chance to succeed.
paul
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kurt at VR-FX Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:46 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: Re: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
I know that somebody else here HAS to ask you this question - so, I might as well be 1st!
So - Why VFP? I'm sure others will say the same thing. If someone is going to start to learn programming - why start them off in a language that was Killed Off by M$??
I don't mean to start a fight over this. And, I know folks will chime in and defend VFP. Heck - I do at times too - since VFP is STILL my core programming language. But, for a newbie - it may be best to start using some other language that is widely in use - maybe even something like Python - which is the 1st language my son seriously got into. He started seriously getting into Python last year about this time - then he even did an Internship this past summer - with a Physics researcher - writing programs to help analyze data. He was actually 15 when he started the Internship!
:-)
-K-
On 1/26/2018 10:22 AM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that
as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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[excessive quoting removed by server]
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
I'm completely self-taught (and sometimes it shows). I don't have much to offer on basic programming skills. I played around with Basic in my youth briefly, and I got some formal instruction in C++ later in life but never used it to produce anything more than training exercises. I've briefly tinkered with Python--enough to convince myself that I could learn it if I had to, though I've never had to.
But for VFP, I first taught myself dbXL using the examples in the manual, and when I had to move from DOS into Windows I taught myself VFP.
The Hentzenwerke books were invaluable to me; I'm sure I never would have developed any real-world-usable skills without them. Especially:
Hacker's Guide to Visual Foxpro 6.0 (THANKS TED!!!) The Fundamentals by Whil Hentzen Effective Techniques for Application Development with Visual Foxpro (Booth & Sawyer: RIP Ms. Booth)
To a lesser extent:
Advanced Object Oriented Programming with Visual Foxpro 6.0 - Marcus Egger Debugging Visual Foxpro Applications (Nancy Folsom; whatever happened to her?) Visual Foxpro Report Writer - Cathy Pountney
Ken Dibble www.stic-cil.org
Fundamentals from Whil is a great start and I'll be giving it to our new trainee on Monday to get him up to speed before introducing him to the wonderful world of C# and Python.
The great thing is you can give the person a VFP dev system and they don't need anything else to run it unless they progress onto Client/Server - one disk, one solution - finished!
It's quick to install, reliable, with a quantifiable instruction set which people can actually learn as opposed to using C# with visual studio which takes a lot of in depth knowledge of .net before you can class yourself as an accomplished developer.
If they learn on VFP (or Pascal for that matter) it is a great grounding for progressing to other languages. All the basic programming structures are there that exist in most llanguages.
It is nice to say that VFP is still the only data centric language out there with an in-built datastore, which limited though it is (the 2Gb limit) allows the majority if not all stand alone desktop apps to be easily developed, tested and installed in both single and multi user modes.
Yes, I know Python is excellent as well as all the other "flavour of the day" languageslike Ruby, Java etc. but they all require extensions here there and everywhere to function as a true development environment and everyone has their own favourite. There isn't a one product fits all solution.
Rightly or wrongly, there is only one set of development tools in VFP and you can get to master them very quickly - then you can use your skills on other more advanced/challenging languages.
I rest my case your honour!
Dave
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-----Original Message----- From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Paul H. Tarver Sent: 26 January 2018 15:23 To: ProFox@leafe.com Subject: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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_______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/0b5101d396b9$82262350$867269f0$@tpcqp... ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
+1
Paul
-----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Dave Crozier Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 10:20 AM To: profoxtech@leafe.com Subject: RE: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
Fundamentals from Whil is a great start and I'll be giving it to our new trainee on Monday to get him up to speed before introducing him to the wonderful world of C# and Python.
The great thing is you can give the person a VFP dev system and they don't need anything else to run it unless they progress onto Client/Server - one disk, one solution - finished!
It's quick to install, reliable, with a quantifiable instruction set which people can actually learn as opposed to using C# with visual studio which takes a lot of in depth knowledge of .net before you can class yourself as an accomplished developer.
If they learn on VFP (or Pascal for that matter) it is a great grounding for progressing to other languages. All the basic programming structures are there that exist in most llanguages.
It is nice to say that VFP is still the only data centric language out there with an in-built datastore, which limited though it is (the 2Gb limit) allows the majority if not all stand alone desktop apps to be easily developed, tested and installed in both single and multi user modes.
Yes, I know Python is excellent as well as all the other "flavour of the day" languageslike Ruby, Java etc. but they all require extensions here there and everywhere to function as a true development environment and everyone has their own favourite. There isn't a one product fits all solution.
Rightly or wrongly, there is only one set of development tools in VFP and you can get to master them very quickly - then you can use your skills on other more advanced/challenging languages.
I rest my case your honour!
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------- This communication and the information it contains is intended for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. Its contents are confidential and may be protected in law. If you have received this e-mail in error you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Unauthorised use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or email.
Flexipol Packaging Ltd. has taken every reasonable precaution to minimise the risk of virus transmission through email and therefore any files sent via e-mail will have been checked for known viruses. However, you are advised to run your own virus check before opening any attachments received as Flexipol Packaging Ltd will not in any event accept any liability whatsoever once an e-mail and/or any attachment is received.
It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they have adequate virus protection.
Flexipol Packaging Ltd. Unit 14 Bentwood Road Carrs Industrial Estate Haslingden Rossendale Lancashire BB4 5HH
Tel:01706-222792 Fax: 01706-224683 www.Flexipol.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------
Terms & Conditions:
Notwithstanding delivery and the passing of risk in the goods, the property in the goods shall not pass to the buyer until the seller Flexipol Packaging Ltd. ("The Company") has received in cash or cleared funds payment in full of the price of the goods and all other goods agreed to be sold by the seller to the buyer for which payment is then due. Until such time as the property in the goods passes to the buyer, the buyer shall hold the goods as the seller's fiduciary agent and bailee and keep the goods separate from those of the buyer and third parties and properly stored protected and insured and identified as the seller's property but shall be entitled to resell or use the goods in the ordinary course of its business. Until such time as the property in the goods passes to the buyer the seller shall be entitled at any time
-----Original Message----- From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Paul H. Tarver Sent: 26 January 2018 15:23 To: ProFox@leafe.com Subject: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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On 26/01/18 13:20, Dave Crozier wrote:
It is nice to say that VFP is still the only data centric language out there with an in-built datastore, which limited though it is (the 2Gb limit) allows the majority if not all stand alone desktop apps to be easily developed, tested and installed in both single and multi user modes.
Yes, I know Python is excellent as well as all the other "flavour of the day" languageslike Ruby, Java etc. but they all require extensions here there and everywhere to function as a true development environment and everyone has their own favourite. There isn't a one product fits all solution.
Rightly or wrongly, there is only one set of development tools in VFP and you can get to master them very quickly - then you can use your skills on other more advanced/challenging languages.
I rest my case your honour!
I don't see it that way, what's wrong with having a modular language? So long as the modules integrate seamlessly into the language there is no real difference between an all-in-one and a modular language. If the integration of the modules is troublesome then you've got a big point.
In Python's case integration is fairly easy, what's difficult is deciding which of the many available modules for each task will you use, but hey, having a choice is good too. As for self contained datastore you may use sqlite module. Only thing I miss from FP is to be able to generate a self contained executable easily and without hassle (with just one command). The other thing that may trip you is the constant updating of the language and the different modules you use in a project, and that sometimes they are not in sync bringing up some hassle, but you may always choose not to update the language and modules and do that at your own pace.
... Oh and I forgot, there's reputedly a great user base full of older wiser folks out there who love to help with their years of experience..... I just can't remember how to find them though... 😊
Dave
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It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they have adequate virus protection.
Flexipol Packaging Ltd. Unit 14 Bentwood Road Carrs Industrial Estate Haslingden Rossendale Lancashire BB4 5HH
Tel:01706-222792 Fax: 01706-224683 www.Flexipol.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------
Terms & Conditions:
Notwithstanding delivery and the passing of risk in the goods, the property in the goods shall not pass to the buyer until the seller Flexipol Packaging Ltd. ("The Company") has received in cash or cleared funds payment in full of the price of the goods and all other goods agreed to be sold by the seller to the buyer for which payment is then due. Until such time as the property in the goods passes to the buyer, the buyer shall hold the goods as the seller's fiduciary agent and bailee and keep the goods separate from those of the buyer and third parties and properly stored protected and insured and identified as the seller's property but shall be entitled to resell or use the goods in the ordinary course of its business. Until such time as the property in the goods passes to the buyer the seller shall be entitled at any time
-----Original Message----- From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Paul H. Tarver Sent: 26 January 2018 15:23 To: ProFox@leafe.com Subject: Foxpro/Programming Training Question
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---
_______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/0b5101d396b9$82262350$867269f0$@tpcqp... ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
I m also interested in Visual FoxPro programming
What the cost for it, and how to joined...
On Jan 26, 2018 6:31 PM, "Paul H. Tarver" paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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Hi Naushad, and welcome to the Visual FoxPro developper community!
VFP programming cost a little time and $… You join already, just ask you questions right here!
Thierry Nivelet
Le 26/01/2018 à 18:55, Naushad Ali Ali a écrit :
I m also interested in Visual FoxPro programming
What the cost for it, and how to joined...
On Jan 26, 2018 6:31 PM, "Paul H. Tarver" paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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Buy ‘1001 things you want to know about Visual Foxpro’ by Andy Kramek c.s. Published by Hentzenwerke a Must Koen
Op vr 26 jan. 2018 om 16:31 schreef Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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Had it for years. Love it. Use it regularly.
Thanks Paul
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 27, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Koen Piller koen.piller@gmail.com wrote:
Buy ‘1001 things you want to know about Visual Foxpro’ by Andy Kramek c.s. Published by Hentzenwerke a Must Koen
Op vr 26 jan. 2018 om 16:31 schreef Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
In my opinion there are two issues: 1) Basic Programming Skills and 2) VFP specific skills, and I'm interested in your suggestions in how to meet both of those needs. Plus if there are other issues, let me know that as well.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
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[excessive quoting removed by server]
On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Paul H. Tarver paul@tpcqpc.com wrote:
If you had an opportunity to teach a novice who is interested in learning programming in general and specifically with Visual Foxpro who has limited previous programming knowledge and experience, where would you start and are there some preferred VFP training materials/books/videos that are recommended.
As everyone else has indicated, the best learning tool would be a time machine. At our Museum of dusty books, we've got nearly every book written since 3.0 (we had to toss the early ones), but Cathy Pountney's Report book is the most dog-eared. Hackfox, as a CHM, is a daily tool, but it requires you to know what it is you want to look up, so it's more of a reference than a tutorial.
The Fundamentals were one of the few books with the premise of teaching novices, so that one, surely. All the books are worthwhile, depending on what you're doing, but too much to take on at once.
VFP documentation has Solution Samples and Foundation Classes worth learning from.
-
Alan Bourke -
Andrew Stirling -
Dave Crozier -
Ken Dibble -
Koen Piller -
Kurt at VR-FX -
Naushad Ali Ali -
Paul H. Tarver -
Ricardo Araoz -
Ted Roche -
Thierry Nivelet