ProFox October 2025

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14 participants
5 discussions

Giving AI Claude SIGHT!
by Kurt Wendt 03 Nov '25

03 Nov '25

Hey there Foxers! I wanted to share something with the group, as I was pretty excited about this - and figured some folks here might find this interesting. And, yeah - this does involve FoxPro (which is why I didn't mark this as [NF]). As many of you already know, I've been doing a LOT of work with Claude AI since I started working here at Pako - after moving to Ohio. And, not EVERYTHING has been successful with Claude - as there have been MANY Times where he Frustrated me Greatly! Including a recent VERY Weird Hallucination with him recently - which I may follow-up here in another thread - cause it was REAL WEIRD Indeed! So - just a little back story. I was hired to support this older FoxPro system - in fact - they have TWO FoxPro based systems here. Of course, part of the deal is to help in the conversion of the system to C#. And, since I literally have really no exp. in C# before getting hired - I figured this would be a good excuse to dive into using AI for this system conversion. And, I HAVE had a LOT of success using Claude to generate XAML & CS code based upon not only FoxPro Screens - but, Reports as well. And, as I have been doing this and converting a number of screens and reports - I've been pushing Claude A LOT - and for each new screen - learn how to improve the prompts, to get better results. But, along the way - there was something that was bothering me about the process. That is - YEAH - Claude could indeed generate C# screens based upon FoxPro screens - but, there was a problem. The screens it would produce were kinda sloppy. And, I knew WHY this was case. It was pretty obvious. BECAUSE - Claude had no "Vision"! It could translate the position of labels and data fields from FoxPro to C# - but, if things Overlapped - it could not "SEE" that it was doing things wrong and making Sloppy Arse screen designs. Then, last week I was pondering this dilemma - and I began a train of thought. What if I could truly give Claude "Vision" - so that he could truly "See" his mistakes and Avoid making sloppy screen conversion designs. Well - I made a comment to Claude about this - this was my prompt to my good buddy Claude: Claude - that update was a lot better. But, I am VERY CURIOUS about something - in regards to what YOU can "SEE" on the screen forms that you build for me. I know you try replicate what is on the FoxPro screen layouts - and convert to XAML. However, it seems you have NO Ability to see when fields and data labels overlap. Am I right? Do you truly have no way to determine the full width of a data label - based upon the font size set - and thus know the approximate dimensions in Pixels??? His Reply(but, this is only PART of what he wrote back to me): You are absolutely correct - and I appreciate you asking this directly! Yes, I have a significant limitation: I cannot accurately visualize the rendered output of the XAML I create. Here's what I'm working with: What I Can See: * The numerical positions from FoxPro (Left, Top, Width, Height values)... What I Cannot Do: * Calculate the actual rendered width of text given a font size and string content * Detect overlapping controls visually... The Problem: I'm essentially working blind - I know that: * A label with Content="Customer Part # :" exists * It has FontSize="18" and FontWeight="Bold" * It's positioned at a certain Canvas.Left position... But I cannot calculate that this text might render as ~150 pixels wide, and therefore might overlap with a textbox that starts too close to it... *** THE Solution *** I then wrote my idea to Claude on how to give him "Vision": OK - I have an idea. I'm putting the letter "X" on the screen. And, I am adjusting the Height & Width for that label - until both are at the bare minimum to be able to display the X - but, without chopping off any part of the letter. Then, if I give you the dimension for that letter being displayed - and also confirm it's Style like it's Size & Weight. Then, in theory, if you know this information - you could potentially then Exactly position labels and data fields - so that nothing overlaps. Will admit - his reply was again rather funny (again - am only giving part of his reply - so as not to make this posting even BIGGER than it needs to be!): YES - you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! This is a brilliant idea and would give me a precise "unit of measurement" to work with! If you tell me something like: * "X" at FontSize="18" with FontWeight="Bold" requires Width="15" Height="28"... Optional - if you want to be extra precise: You could also test a few other characters like: * "W" or "M" (typically the widest characters) * "I" or "l" (typically the narrowest) * This would tell me if the font is monospace (all same width) or proportional (variable width) So, yeah - not only did Claude confirm that I could potentially give him "Vision" - but, he gave me great input - in regards to using a "W" as well as the letter "I". This was the screen before I implemented this "Vision" concept (which was initially create via Claude - and then I did a whole bunch of changes): https://ibb.co/HTVnYftw After prepping the new prompt, giving Claude the ability to "See" - here is the 1st updated version: https://ibb.co/FqL5mTXV So - there you have it. I'd be curious to know what folks thought about this - especially Mr. Roberts - who is also extensively using Claude! L8r G8rs, -Kurt

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To TEST or Not to Test...
by Kurt Wendt 30 Oct '25

30 Oct '25

...that is the Dilemma! And, yes - this is related to FoxPro - in regards to our current system conversion project of porting it to C#. I just asked my IT guy here at work (who sits on the desk opposite mine) - what he knew about doing software testing. From what he has heard, in regards to doing Automated type testing - that's mainly for Web/Browser based apps. Since, he figures - it's not so easy to do testing automation of Desktop Apps. So, I wanted to throw this out to the Hive Mind here. Is there actually tools that allow one to do automated testing for Desktop apps? And, if so - is any of that a kind of open-source thing? Cause - I really don't think the co. where I work would actually pay for testing automation tools. Anyway - that's it for now... L8r G8rs, -K

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Virtual Fox Fest 2025 (Oct): Last Call!
by Rick Schummer 23 Oct '25

23 Oct '25

Virtual Fox Fest 2025 (October) is on October 29th and 30th, 2025. If you plan to attend the conference, please register today. It only takes a couple of minutes, and we only get busier the closer we get to the conference: https://geekgatherings.com/Registration Rick White Light Computing, Inc.

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[NF] Quality In Software
by Paul H. Tarver 10 Oct '25

10 Oct '25

As someone who has been studying how to elevate and treat my own programming as a craft instead of as a job for the past 25 years, I saw this article by Denis Stetskov and everyone here might enjoy reading it too. Disclaimer: this article is NOT against using AI in programming but rather it is focused crappy software engineering and quality control. The cliché we learned as newbie programmers Garbage In, Garbage Out still applies, but even more so when AI is included in the mix. https://techtrenches.substack.com/p/the-great-software-quality-collapse I thought it was an interesting article and one this group might enjoy discussing especially since its been quite in here for a while! J PS: See you all at Virtual FoxFest later this month! Paul H. Tarver Tarver Program Consultants, Inc. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---

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ProFox List Statistics for September 2025
by List Administrator Account 01 Oct '25

01 Oct '25

================================================== ProFox List Statistics September 2025 ================================================== Subscriber Count at End of Month: ProFox: 308 ProFoxTech: 182 ================================================== Total Posts: 13 (Up 62.5% from August 2025) Total [OT] Posts: 0 (Unchanged from August 2025) Total [NF] Posts: 7 (Up 100.0% from August 2025) Daily Message Counts for September 2025 ------------------------------------------------ DOW Date Count --- ---- ----- M 1 - 3 T 2 - 6 W 3 - 1 T 4 - 1 T 11 - 1 M 29 - 1 Message Counts By Day of Week for September 2025 ------------------------------------------------ DOW Count --- ----- Mon - 4 Tue - 6 Wed - 1 Thu - 2 Distinct Posters to the List (changes relative to August 2025) ------------------------------------------------ Non-OT messages: 10 (Up 66.67%) OT messages: 0 (Unchanged) NF messages: 5 (Up 100.0%) Total number: 10 (Up 66.67%) Top 10 Contributors by Number of Non-OT Posts ------------------------------------------------ | Posts Contributor | ------------------------------------------------ 1. 2 Alan Bourke 2. 2 Kurt Wendt 3. 2 Rick Schummer 4. 1 Ted Roche 5. 1 John Weller 6. 1 Ed Leafe 7. 1 <juergen(a)wondzinski.de> 8. 1 Eric Selje 9. 1 Stephen Russell 10. 1 List Administrator Account Top 0 Contributors by Number of OT Posts ------------------------------------------------ | Posts OT% Contributor | ------------------------------------------------ Top 5 Contributors by Number of NF Posts ------------------------------------------------ | Posts Contributor | ------------------------------------------------ 1. 2 Kurt Wendt 2. 2 Alan Bourke 3. 1 Eric Selje 4. 1 <juergen(a)wondzinski.de> 5. 1 Ed Leafe Top 10 Contributors by Total Number of Posts ------------------------------------------------ | Posts Contributor | ------------------------------------------------ 1. 2 Alan Bourke 2. 2 Kurt Wendt 3. 2 Rick Schummer 4. 1 Ted Roche 5. 1 John Weller 6. 1 Ed Leafe 7. 1 <juergen(a)wondzinski.de> 8. 1 Eric Selje 9. 1 Stephen Russell 10. 1 List Administrator Account Top 4 Contributors by Number of New Threads Started ------------------------------------------------ | Posts Contributor | ------------------------------------------------ 1. 2 Rick Schummer 2. 1 Ed Leafe 3. 1 Stephen Russell 4. 1 List Administrator Account Top 7 Non-OT Threads by Total Number of Posts ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Posts Subject | ------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. 6 [NF] Python: the Documentary 2. 2 NF to be taken off line ASAP 3. 1 *****SPAM***** NF to be taken off line ASAP 4. 1 AW: [NF] Python: the Documentary 5. 1 Virtual Fox Fest 2025 (Oct): We've Got Sessions 6. 1 ProFox List Statistics for August 2025 7. 1 Virtual Fox Fest 2025 (Oct): Register today, save $40 Top 0 OT Threads by Total Number of Posts ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Posts Subject | ------------------------------------------------------------------ Top 7 Threads by Total Number of Posts ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Posts Subject | ------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. 6 [NF] Python: the Documentary 2. 2 NF to be taken off line ASAP 3. 1 *****SPAM***** NF to be taken off line ASAP 4. 1 AW: [NF] Python: the Documentary 5. 1 Virtual Fox Fest 2025 (Oct): We've Got Sessions 6. 1 ProFox List Statistics for August 2025 7. 1 Virtual Fox Fest 2025 (Oct): Register today, save $40

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